Atlas Renewable LLC

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10/23/2025

A incredible story! https://www.instagram.com/p/DQCUzcoEXnP/?img_index=4&igsh=MTEyaGw3eTQ0bzRkdg==

09/26/2025

Skytower Partners with Saudi Ministry of Industry and Mineral Resources to Elevate China-Saudi Industrial Cooperation

September 26, 2025, Shanghai, China — Skytower Group Inc. (“Skytower”) has long maintained a robust and close strategic partnership with the Saudi Ministry of Industry and Mineral Resources as a trusted partner in industrial consulting and strategic investment. On the occasion of H.E. Bandar AlKhorayef’s official visit to China, Skytower CEO Mr. Eric Fang was once again invited to lead his team in a high-level, one-on-one meeting with H.E. the Minister AlKhorayef and his delegation to conduct in-depth discussions on advancing cooperation in industrial, mineral, logistics, and related sectors, injecting new momentum into the long-term strategic collaboration between the two sides. Previously, on August 27, 2025, Mr. Fang had met with H.E. the Minister AlKhorayef and his team in North Carolina, USA, further consolidating the foundation of their enduring strategic partnership.

During the meeting, Mr. Fang conveyed warm regards from Skytower Chairman Mr. Neil Bush to H.E. the Minister AlKhorayef and provided a comprehensive overview of Skytower’s strategic initiatives and practical achievements in localized fine chemicals, mineral exploration and full value-chain processing, advanced manufacturing, commercial vehicles, as well as digital and cross-border logistics networks. He emphasized that these forward-looking initiatives align closely with Saudi Arabia’s Vision 2030 and will provide strong support for accelerating industrial upgrading and modernizing logistics infrastructure in the Kingdom.

Mr. Fang stated: “Skytower is committed to leveraging global resources and local expertise to provide professional strategic investment and industrial consulting support for Saudi Arabia’s industrial and mineral development. Our focus extends beyond project implementation to driving full value-chain upgrading and optimizing supply chains, fostering a sustainable and mutually beneficial framework for China-Saudi industrial cooperation. Looking ahead, Skytower will further deepen collaboration in key sectors including industry, minerals, and logistics, harnessing digitalization and innovative technologies to support Saudi Arabia’s industrial modernization while generating long-term strategic value for both sides.”

H.E. the Minister AlKhorayef highly praised Skytower’s professionalism and pragmatic approach in their long-standing cooperation, noting the Skytower’s deep engagement in commercial vehicles, modern logistics, and mineral sectors as highly significant for Saudi Arabia. He extended a special invitation to Skytower and its partners to participate in the Future Minerals Forum, scheduled for January 2026 in Riyadh, and reaffirmed that the Saudi Ministry of Industry and Mineral Resources will continue to provide strong support for their strategic investment and industrial collaboration initiatives.

This engagement further consolidates Skytower’s role as a core long-term strategic partner in China-Saudi industrial cooperation and provides a solid platform for deepening collaboration across industrial, mineral, and logistics sectors. Moving forward, Skytower will continue to uphold its philosophy of “global vision, local practice,” driving integrated China-Saudi industrial chain development and jointly supporting the realization of Saudi Arabia’s Vision 2030.

08/04/2025

Skytower to advance Strategic Cooperation with Jingda to the U.S., EU and Saudi Arabia Markets

From July 18 to 19, 2025, Mr. Eric Fang, Chief Executive Officer of Skytower Group, led a company delegation to Tongling, Anhui Province, to visit Tongling Jingda Special Magnet Wire Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as “Jingda”). During the visit, Mr. Fang held in-depth discussions with Mr. Li Xiao, Chairman of Jingda, on strategic cooperation in the field of specialty electromagnetic wires and explored feasible pathways to expand high-performance wire products into key international markets, particularly the United States and Saudi Arabia.

The two parties held comprehensive discussions on the internationalization strategy for Jingda’s core product lines, including copper-based and aluminum-based magnet wires, flat wires, and specialty conductor materials. The Skytower delegation gained insights into Jingda’s strengths in R&D, intelligent manufacturing, quality management systems, and global customer service, and expressed high appreciation for Jingda’s overall competitiveness and global positioning in the magnet wire industry.

During the visit, Mr. Fang and his team also toured Jingda’s main production facility in Tongling, where they observed the company’s latest achievements in green manufacturing, production automation, and process innovation. The two parties further exchanged views on emerging trends in downstream applications such as electric vehicles, renewable energy, and smart grid infrastructure.

During the discussion, Mr. Fang stated: “Jingda is a global leader in the research, development, and manufacturing of specialty magnet wires. We greatly admire their unwavering focus on core technologies and continuous innovation. As global energy systems transform and advanced manufacturing accelerates, the demand for high-performance conductor materials in the U.S. and Middle Eastern markets is rapidly growing. Skytower aims to work hand-in-hand with Jingda to serve as a strategic bridge in the ongoing restructuring of global supply chains—sharing resources, driving synergies, and promoting Chinese advanced manufacturing on the international stage, while delivering higher-value solutions to global customers.”

Mr. Li Xiao, Chairman of Jingda, remarked: “Jingda is committed to becoming a global leader in comprehensive electromagnetic wire solutions. We value the strategic alignment with Skytower and look forward to deeper and more diversified cooperation across the North American and Middle Eastern markets, as we continue expanding our global business footprint.”

This visit not only reflects Skytower’s forward-looking vision for global manufacturing and supply chain development but also injects fresh momentum into Jingda’s internationalization strategy. Looking ahead, both parties will continue to strengthen communication, accelerate project implementation, and jointly tap into broader opportunities in the global market.

08/04/2025

Skytower and Sineng Electric to explore on Solar and Energy Storage Solutions in the U.S. and Saudi markets

On July 25, 2025, Mr. Eric Fang, Chief Executive Officer of Skytower Group, led a company delegation to visit Sineng Electric and held in-depth discussions with Chairman Mr. Wu Qiang. The two parties conducted a comprehensive dialogue on strategic cooperation in the deployment of photovoltaic inverters and energy storage systems in the United States and Saudi Arabia.

As one of China’s leading manufacturers of renewable energy equipment, Sineng Electric has long focused on the R&D and industrialization of PV inverters and energy storage solutions. Its products are widely used in large-scale ground-mounted power stations, commercial and industrial distributed energy projects, and international markets. This meeting aimed to leverage both parties’ respective strengths to jointly promote the global deployment of advanced green energy technologies and contribute to the renewable energy transitions underway in both the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

Following a site tour, Mr. Fang and his team expressed strong appreciation for Sineng Electric’s technological capabilities in high-efficiency solar inverters, integrated electrochemical energy storage systems, and system-level energy management solutions. The two parties also held in-depth exchanges on the renewable energy needs under Saudi Arabia’s “Vision 2030” and the challenges posed by regulatory compliance and technical standardization in the U.S. storage market.

During the discussion, Mr. Fang stated: “We place high value on partnerships with globally oriented and technically advanced clean energy companies like Sineng Electric. Solar and energy storage are critical pillars in the global energy transition, with strong momentum in U.S. distributed energy and large-scale clean energy deployment in Saudi Arabia. Skytower will leverage its strategic presence across the Middle East and North America to explore a variety of collaboration models with Sineng Electric—including local joint ventures, co-development, and industrial capital cooperation—to support the internationalization of Chinese green technologies and contribute to a more sustainable global energy future.”

Chairman Wu echoed the sentiment, expressing Sineng Electric’s commitment to open, collaborative engagement with Skytower. He highlighted opportunities to explore local assembly in Saudi Arabia, the establishment of regional technical support centers, and enhanced compliance with U.S. market requirements—all aimed at delivering greater value to international customers through localized, high-quality solutions.

This visit marks a further step in Skytower’s strategic expansion in the global green energy sector and sets a new model for collaboration between Chinese new energy companies and international partners. Both parties will maintain close communication and work toward the rapid implementation of cooperative projects, jointly empowering the development of global renewable energy and energy security transformation.

07/04/2025

It was great to see our friends at Houston carbon Capture Utilization conference 2025!

05/18/2025

Congratulations to all! We are very proud of Abdullah Meleihi for his dedication and hard work to support the US-Suadi Partnership and was instrumental in creation of Energy Investment Fun and New Era Fund building a sustainable future.

President Donald J. Trump’s first official trip was a huge success, locking in over $2 trillion in great deals—including a $600 billion investment

04/23/2025

Neil Bush Interview:

US-China Contemporary Climate Change Cooperation

Interviewer: Dorothy Song
Interviewee: Neil Bush, Chairman, The George H. W. Bush Foundation for U.S.-China Relations, Neil Bush Global Advisers and Skytower Group and Skytower Investments

Dorothy:
So, the global climate issues are changing rapidly and have received a lot of attention from various countries, and in recent years the focus has been particularly on the cooperation between China and the U.S. What are your thoughts on the current state of climate cooperation between China and the U.S.?

Neil:
So first of all, I’ve been very discouraged over the recent years about how low the relationship between the United States and China has gotten. The geopolitical relationship over many years has led to huge wins for both sides, ever since the opening of the bilateral trade relationship, which has helped make America the greatest and strongest country on the face of the planet and has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in China. It’s been vital for increasing stability and freedom and opportunity for many people, and to see the relationship which has been so meaningful and helpful deteriorate has been discouraging. It's particularly discouraging now, with the tensions, moving each country towards building walls against each other in decreasing collaboration and increasing barriers to trade, et cetera. It's particularly bad timing given that there really is a growing urgency to deal with global challenges. Central of those is kind of in the area of your interest, which is in climate and renewables. It's critical that the two largest economies in the world with the most advanced technologies in the world, collaborate in trying to address these issues. It seems so logical and so simple to come to that conclusion, and yet the geopolitical tensions are making it more complicated.

I historically had the crisis in climate been more pronounced 10 years ago and I think we would have seen a lot more progress made in collaboration. But given the geopolitical tensions, it's more challenging now. I'm not sure what it's gonna take to move away from this difficult time, because the politicians on both sides are moving away from collaboration rather than towards collaboration. Especially in the United States, I'll make one more observation. There is a consensus in China that there should be something done about climate and China is leading the way with solar, wind, storage, hydrogen, all the green initiatives that are in electric vehicles. China is leading the way in producing all of the equipment to get that done and they're implementing technologies. They have a much higher percentage of electric vehicle pe*******on in their market, and a much higher percentage of solar and wind compared to anywhere else in the world. They're the number one lead producer.
In the US, we're still debating whether there's a climate crisis in the first place. The one leading candidate for president is saying we should “drill, baby, drill!” basically, in implying that we should turn our back on climate initiatives, which has been started under the Biden administration and move back to oil and gas, kind of as our sweet spot for energy development. In the US, there is no consensus politically that there is a crisis, so it makes it even more challenging to develop a global consensus. It's a difficult time right now, but it's urgent that we find ways to collaborate.

Dorothy:
Yeah, I really like the Biden administration says, climate change it's the only thing that we have to cooperate with China. Based on that, I also like you mentioned a lot of points on what is the obstacle for the corporation and there is a rising geopolitical issue on sovereignty issues where they have different opinions. So, although they have the consensus, how do you like to identify, which is the biggest obstacle for two countries to collaborate in climate change?

Neil:
Yeah, that's a good question. I think the biggest obstacle is the US hasn't developed a consensus around the requirement to work on climate change. And therefore, there's no impetus from the US side to really push it. There has been under Biden, but not there won't be under Trump, because there's a division with the way that Trump uses energy as a nationalistic appeal. You demagogued the issue by saying this is all that climate is terribly entered. He bad mouth, electric vehicles and the whole program that binds insulate. So I think the biggest barrier to collaboration is the US side has not developed a consensus around climate.

I've given you the bad news, but there's good news. The good news is that private companies can work together in climate with cross border collaborations and that kind of thing to address the issue without government interference. I’ll give you an example. My partner and I help to forge a real a strategic investment relationship and development relationship between a Chinese company, CNTY, that has invested $50 million in a US startup technology company. They invested heavily for the license to use that technology in China. And for their building, they're completing the construction of the first hundred megawatt hour power plant in China. And it's been a really beautiful example of how US innovation and kind of creativity in developing concepts for dealing with technologies and the climate can be combined with Chinese, to know how and ingenuity and the engineering prowess. The Chinese are pretty good about how to build things, so they work. We kind of right in the middle of this process to see two private companies working together without government interference. And in fact, with Chinese government approval to build this first ever gravity-oriented storage facility in Jiangsu province. There's hope that companies can work together. The problem is many companies from the US are afraid to do business in China, because there's been a lot of bad mouthing of China in the business environment. So, the businesses are afraid to kind of work against the US government's intentions. I feel like the United States is trying to isolate China and trying to constrain China's growth. I think that's a misguided policy, frankly, but companies don't want to go counter to the government's intentions.

Dorothy:
You mentioned about the obstacles for cooperation, even in the private sectors. I heard about some of the bad comments from the US side to the Chinese companies that they don't really have a good cooperation experience before, or they have gone through some bad things that really stop the corporation. So, do you think there is some misunderstanding or information asymmetric between?

Neil:
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding. If you look at the reality, there are thousands of American companies working in China, making money in China, happily expanding their business in China. Some now are withdrawing their business because of the fear of government. Reprisal big of kind of countering the government's policies towards containment of China. But there's been a long history, at least the last 30-to-40-year history of many companies doing very well in China. One by having their stuff made in China and then shipped outside like apple iPhone. Apple enjoying a huge market in China where a lot of young people probably yourself. Do you have an apple?

Dorothy:
Yeah i'm using apple phone.

Neil:
A lot of people buy apple phones, so there's been a long here. But recently there's been so much emphasis on intellectual property theft. Government regulations discouraging foreign collaborations in China that there's an impression that runs counter to the actual historical fact that there's been many collaborations. But there also have been many businesses established and done quite well in China.

Dorothy:
Cyber security is always a topic for both governments to concern about the cooperation among the private sectors. But in China, all the policies would follow the central government. So if government is pushing a policy that is specifically on the cyber security, or the US government think they have to raise the tariffs or the tax to stop the Chinese companies to get into the US or cooperate with each other, how do you think individuals or policy maker can do with that?

Neil:
I don't know. I have told such a totally different perspective on what if I were a policy maker, what I would do. I wouldn't raise tariffs on Chinese goods. It's ridiculous to concede in a capitalist competitive landscape that we can't compete. So, we have to raise tariffs on electric vehicles. For example, Biden and Trump both are jumping on keeping electric vehicles from coming into the United States is a ridiculous posture to take. If the Chinese are the best manufacturers of electric vehicles, they make high quality, lower cost cars, why shouldn't American consumers benefit from that? Why? What's the point of restricting it? And some people say it's the electronics or the software that's built into the cars. They're going to be able to keep track data on American citizens and to what in? Who cares if my wife Maria drives to the grocery store or then goes to? What are they afraid? They're going to have some autopilots take over the car and driver to some prisoner? It doesn't make sense that there's a hyper fear about Chinese intentions and Chinese capabilities that's making some of this very difficult.

Dorothy:
I want to switch to businessmen. How can they deal with that? How can they promote the private sector corporations?

Neil:
We've done it. My partner and I have done it, and I think we'll figure out there's a big opportunity to collaborate on certain aspects, especially in climate, where the Chinese have the best equipment, the best know how to bring. If I were a policy maker, I would encourage Chinese investment in the US if the Chinese want to serve the US market. They're not allowed to serve it by bringing their products into the US. But if they would be allowed to invest in the US to make solar panels and wind turbines and all the different batteries and that kind of thing, then the Chinese technology would come to the US and people from America would be employed from these jobs that are created. The local communities benefit with higher tax revenues and it's like a total win. Sadly, the idea of Chinese investment in the US is now soured, by comparing to any other country in the world. The French can do it, the Germans can do it. Most countries in the world are welcomed with open arms for investment in our country, but China is becoming taboo. It's kind of on a “no go no fly” zone. You can't come to the US, which is too bad.

Dorothy:
Yeah, if that's a thing, that is in a higher-level consideration, maybe for young people, maybe we will become the policy maker one day, and we can like change this, change the policies, and to promote more of the globalization or international corporations.

Neil:
That's a huge question. Globalization. Globalization is what has led to the humongous global growth of the economy. It's been amazing to witness in my lifetime how over the past 40 years, the standard of living for people all over the globe has improved and the quality of life has improved and medical advances. And to travel, everything has been improved significantly. In large part, because of globalization, global is a very simple idea where if one country can do something better than another country, then there's a sharing of best practices. We buy a lot. We still do buy a lot of high-quality, low-cost goods from China, which is what gives me hope that the roots of our relationship are so deep that we won't ever be able to decouple, which is the phrase for like “not ever do business together anymore”. We won't go to war. I think being so deeply connected will keep us away from going to war.

Dorothy:
It reminds me about my question for the businessman, because if you were talking about globalization, they have to have an economic benefit for both sides or for all the countries. But it's sometimes like the consensus on producing green energy and to promote a greener world. It has the conflict, which controvert to their benefits on the revenues for the businessmen. So, what is your suggestion? And what is your thoughts on dealing with that?

Neil:
First of all, I think the economics of the green implementation of green technologies has improved significantly. In the past, the governments have had to subsidize industry. And then as industries take and hold and develop economies of scale, the costs of those products or those things come down. So the cost of solar panels, the cost of electric vehicles to call all these costs coming down. Now there's a profit motive involved with being green. You can go and implement a plan to generate electricity using wind or sun in places where there is a lot of wind and sun. And the cost is competitive with coal fire power plants or gas fired power plants, and that kind of thing.

So as long as there's growing use of renewable, for example, in the energy, in the electricity generation side of things. There's going to be more and more positive economics. Businesses need to make money. They can't go do something in Africa or somewhere just to be nice, you going to come back with enough profit to be able to justify with your shareholders. So there's a profit incentive. Sadly, governments are stepping in with tariffs and barriers to free trade that are causing those economics to look to not be as attractive. So I applaud Bidens administration's effort to try to localize as much of the green production as possible, (but) I don't think it's necessary because in a truly global world, we can get supplies at a lower cost and of high quality products from other places, specifically from China. We're trying to make a fake economy in the US where costs are higher, where the regulatory burdens are more challenging, where the materials aren't as accessible in many cases.

So anyway, I think businesses are driven by profit. And so long as the conditions are suitable for making profit, then they'll go there. Another question is collaboration. That's different. There are different set of issues. Regarding Americans collaborating with Chinese, Americans are collaborating with everyone else.

Dorothy:
Except Chinese.

Neil:
Sometimes. So unfortunately. Let fewer and fewer collaborations with Chinese.

Dorothy:
So, it reminds me of what you mentioned. If there are subsidies provided for the energy transition project, even with high costs, they can still be conducted in the first phase. For example, I see a lot of companies like High Chem doing hydrogen projects. However, the cost of hydrogen is too high for everyone to conduct, even if they put in the infrastructures. When the government is not supporting that, they cannot make profits. So they will be more like a non-profit organization to conduct that.

Neil:
For any industry, hydrogen is a great example to take root, become standard, and become useful to society. There has to be a large enough scale and big enough infrastructure for that industry to take off on its own and be profitable. At the beginning of this cycle for hydrogen, it's not economic; it's too expensive. There aren't enough applications. I went to a Baker Hughes conference in Frankfurt, and the basic theme related to hydrogen is that hydrogen will become a base industry serving green initiatives around the world. Hydrogen can be used to make green ammonia, green methanol, and all these green things required for aviation, fuel, transportation, and more. But it's going to take some small steps. There will be certain applications, for example, in logistics where big truck companies can convert their trucks to methanol using hydrogen as the source. They would have filling stations that would serve these long-haul trucks. They'd be building specific infrastructure for those independent companies. From there, it would grow to become a larger infrastructure that would service other users of that specific piece of the hydrogen puzzle. It's just going to take time. It's never going to be an immediate adoption of a new industry. It was true for solar and wind. Huge investments were made, and those costs of production have now come significantly down, becoming very economic. That's just the way the world of economics works. You start something, it costs more than it should, and then the costs come down. In the case of the green world, it slightly offsets hydrogen, but consider the adoption of green cars in the US. I used to be a Tesla man. Now, we have 100% battery electric vehicles in the United States. We just sold our house, but in our house, we had a plug to charge our car every night or once a week for a full charge, which was pretty inexpensive. Now we live in an apartment building with no charger, so we have to find a place to charge our car. One car gets 250 miles per charge; the other gets 200 miles per charge. That lasts a while, but not that long. It's very inconvenient to get the car charged. Having infrastructure barriers is true in the electric vehicle business, and it will also be true in things related to the hydrogen ecosystem.

Dorothy:
Yeah, I feel that is a kind of, I don't know if that's the right word to describe it, but that's a sacrifice for a transition, and that's a sacrifice for evolution. Yeah, it’s the future.

Neil:
That sacrifice is a burden. It's definitely a barrier. It just makes things slower, then you would want and hope.

Dorothy:
Yeah. But do you think the leading powers, the big powers like the US and China, if they set an example by subsidizing hydrogen or green energy, could evoke other countries to follow them? Or do you think it's just for a big power to do that?

Neil:
No. Actually, I think Europe, you have to double-check the facts here, but I'm pretty sure Europe is doing a lot to lead the transition by requiring certain percentages of fuels, for example, in jets to be from renewable sources, from biomass or renewable sources. So the fact that they’re making these mandates is driving industry to find solutions. So it's not just the US and China. I think the US under Biden has done a good job of providing financial incentives through the infrastructure fund, the big deal that was implemented. So that has provided a lot of impetus for companies doing green things, localizing green manufacturing in the US. China is obviously way ahead of the curve in terms of using government stimulus to develop the industry.
Now the industry's kind of blossoming on its own. But I'm not sure other countries, countries like Africa that are under-resourced. I think there are going to be more places where you would go to implement a solar, wind, sort of a green strategy, as opposed to having them be a major manufacturing hub for this kind of stuff. I don't know, but I think they'll adopt greenness over time as those costs continue to come down.

Dorothy:
Yeah. But I think I've read something about Africa in our energy classes, because a lot of people sound like, okay, for the Africa region, they still have a problem with power, because they lack power sometimes. So they have a sort of basic problem. If you just change their system, their infrastructure, to completely green, it's kind of impossible for them to support.

Neil:
I'm working right now in Bulgaria, which is an interesting example. It's not Africa, but it's a European country. They are part of the European Union, and they're heavy users of coal in generating electricity. They have many power plants that use coal. They're being penalized with carbon taxes, huge amounts of money every year because of the emissions from the coal into the atmosphere. They have thousands of jobs related to their coal mines and power operations. They don't have as much natural gas as they need to convert the coal-fired power plants to natural gas right away. So they're in a tough position because they don't have the right resource mix, and they have economic incentives to keep using coal. Because of the huge carbon taxes they're paying, they've got to find a solution. They've got to shut down those plants and transition more quickly than they would otherwise. I'm working with a group that actually owns coal mines and uses coal for their power plants. They're trying to find ways to transition to greener methods of generating power, using sun, but also finding some source of natural gas to help them convert the power plants from coal to gas. Anyway, the world is transitioning.

Dorothy:
Do they just start that project or they’re in progress?

Neil:
They've been doing it. For greening the transition, this company I've been working with has been thinking about or trying to transition. They've been securing rights for big solar farms in Bulgaria. By the way, the Bulgarian solar potential isn't anywhere near like here (Saudi). The sun is shining all the time; I haven't seen a cloud since I've been here. So that’s the weather here, in the Gobi Desert, and in any desert, you're gonna have environments like this. Bulgaria is just a normal place that has half the sunshine of a place like Saudi Arabia. So the economics of their solar potential are lower, making it even more challenging to implement. I’m not sure what their wind factors are, but they’re in a pickle. They have a challenge.

Dorothy:
Yeah, so you specifically mentioned the project you are doing now. How do you think your project, the one you invested in or participated in, could help with the energy transition, like the one in Saudi Arabia, or the one in Bulgaria, or all around the world that you did before?

Neil:
The project I described for China is a great example of a project that, if the technology is really good and is still being proven, has come to a commercial scale, then it could be used everywhere around the world. This project, I'll describe it very simply, uses gravity. Right now, most utility-scale storage, like many megawatts of storage, uses lithium-ion batteries. There's also a lot of hydropower, where you pump water into a dam, and then when you need the power, you drop the water, and it turns turbines. So that uses gravity. It's the same concept as a hydroelectric dam, but this US company has patented the technology to build what they call mobile masses, these large 25-ton blocks. They've got over 1,000 blocks that have been put into a 46 or 42-story building in China. These blocks will be lifted to become potential energy when there's an excess of power in the grid, when the power is there, but no one's using it. So you use it to lift the blocks, and when you need the power, drop the blocks. The blocks move the turbines and create electricity. If this technology is proven to have the right economics, the round-trip efficiencies, the costs, etc., then it could be deployed here, or anywhere, to be part of the critical need for storage. I'm learning so much about renewable energy recently. I'm 69 years old, and I've learned a lot. But one of the problems with renewable energy is that the sun only shines.

Dorothy:
Everyone is a new learner for that.

Neil:
I knew it was new, relatively new. But the sun only shines during the day. The wind blows at night also, but not all the time. So you have an intermittency of power generation, and to be able to use the power consistently, you need to figure out a way to store it. When the sun goes down, you can use the stored energy, or when the wind dies, you can use the stored energy to balance the grid and the inputs of power into the grid. Sometimes you need a little extra power in the grid, so you use the storage. When you don't need the power, you build up storage. That's why storage is so critical to make the use of renewables more efficient. Hopefully, this technology being deployed in the US will have applications all over the world once it's proven to be successful.

Interestingly, this whole hydrogen development is potentially the best technology for storage because you can use the wind when it's blowing in the middle of the desert to make hydrogen. When the wind goes down, you still have that hydrogen, which can be shipped places. It's like a stored source of energy. You can use that hydrogen to go into ammonia and other things, and as a propellant for automobiles or airplanes. There are different ways of thinking about energy balancing, storage, and efficiencies. The bottom line is, it will all be worked out over time when there's scale to the adoption of solar, wind, storage, and hydrogen. That's when market efficiencies will drive the applications and the use. You can't predict right now.

Dorothy:
Yeah. We have no prediction on that.

Neil:
You can't predict. In fact, one of the questions I've asked these big government agencies as I go around the world is how do you know what technology, for example, making hydrogen, what electrolyzers are going to be the most effective five years from now. When you're able to generate the power to make the hydrogen, you lock in agreements today, but five years from now, that technology may not be the best. So it's so new, everything is so new. It's fascinating to see how it's going to unfold, how this whole play is going to shake out. In the meantime, there's a lot of work being done, and it's very encouraging.

Dorothy:
Yeah, do you think a lot of governments will think that is a way to waste money in technology advancement? Because you have no prediction if this technology will be given up in the future.

Neil:
So governments, I think, play two roles. One is providing the incentives and subsidies. In places like China and Saudi Arabia, there are sovereign funds that invest in things to try to pick winners, and they can grow them. So they own and operate them. But there's a risk to it. That said, the government role as the project developer is to find technologies that meet their needs. They're taking a risk if they lock in too early to one technology and that technology is supplanted by another down the road. They have the freedom to pick whatever the best technology is on the market at that time, so I wouldn't be too concerned about government risk. I think the government incentives are critical to keeping this momentum in the green area. There have been many high level targets set from COP 28, which is a big gathering of energy. The Chinese have set their 2030, 2060 goals. The Americans, do we have? I'm not sure if we have. Anyway.

Dorothy:
Not like vision 2030.

Neil:
Now for Vision 2030, some governments in Europe have set some important goals, but those goals are ambitious. I think only China is on track to meet its 2030 goals. Everywhere else is hampered by the lack of government and business support for these singular initiatives. That's the advantage China has; when the government at the top says we're going to make this a priority, everybody bends over backwards to implement the plan. All the provinces and cities compete and try to get more green. We had the Anhui province governor and party secretary come to Saudi Arabia to promote one of his local companies here. It's in his best interest to promote it. It looks good for him to be successful in promoting green technologies in his province and in another land. The Chinese are better equipped at mobilizing a huge force behind this kind of initiative.

Dorothy:
I'm thinking about all the governments. You mentioned China is doing a really good job. I think it's because we prioritize the green energy goal above all other developments for our country. For example, when you're researching Vision 2030 for Saudi Arabia, I feel they are trying hard to combine their economic goals with their energy transition goals. Do you think it is possible for all countries to combine those two goals together? Like the energy transition and the economic goal. If they combine together, do you think that will have a better promotion for all the countries?

Neil:
I'm not sure about all the countries, but I think countries do benefit by recognizing that there are positive economic benefits to embracing the energy transition. If you support solar, wind, storage, and all the components related to green energy, then the economics of those activities become more and more profitable. There's more and more sustainability to those activities.

In the US, some people are anti-climate change and anti-renewable. They say that our strength is oil and gas, and we're going to keep doing that and sell our oil and gas all over the world. We don't need a transition. But if we embraced the dual concept, we're never going to not need oil and gas. You can never imagine a world where we're not producing and consuming over 90, maybe 100 million barrels a day, and the industries and economies rely on it. You can't imagine any scenario where 20 or 30 years from now, we won't be using some hydrocarbons.

Having said that, we should in America embrace this idea that there are two energy pathways as part of the transition. One where we're going towards a greener, environmentally favorable pathway. And by the way, there's a lot of technology being developed around capturing carbon being emitted from the use of hydrocarbons, from using gas and oil in various processes. If you can figure out a way to both transition away from oil and gas, but also capture the carbon being emitted from those uses, then those technologies should be rewarded, advanced, and made commercially viable. So there are just so many parts to this puzzle.

Dorothy:
The reason I'm asking that question is I have concerns about a rising trend of people saying renewable energy is not profitable. Some of my colleagues were very passionate about changing environmental issues and wanted to conduct environmentally friendly projects. But now they have changed their minds and feel they need to do something that can make money. So they have given up on renewable energy and gone back to oil and gas. Do you think there's anything that can change their minds?

Neil:
Yeah, they were patient and waited until the economics of renewables become more obviously advantageous versus oil and gas. Then they'll transition naturally, but it takes early adopters to get into the idea that deploying renewables can be economic. There's a guy named Bill Gross, the founding investor in Energy Vault, the company with the storage. You should Google him and find some of his commentary on renewable energy. He's a big believer that over time, technologies drive costs down significantly in the renewable space. You can see it with the cost per kilowatt of solar and wind becoming more competitive.

I've forgotten the exact law, maybe Moore's law, but if your friends could understand that, that's the nature of progress. The adoption of new technologies leads to wider adoption, economies of scale kick in, technological improvement is driven, and the price per unit goes down while the quality stays high. I think they're being a little premature. They're probably listening to Donald Trump too much.

Dorothy:
Maybe. Yes, but because I'm an international relations student, we are kind of trained every day, studying renewable energy, to believe we should conduct this. I think my brain is working on the idea that we have to do this because it is good for human beings. But for other people who are not studying international relations or renewable energy, those studying, for example, computer science, math, or business administration, how do you think we can change their minds to contribute to the energy transition?

Neil:
Maybe you should have them watch the news every day because then they'll see that the volume of horrific environmental crises is getting so high. The tornadoes recently in the United States, the numbers of tornadoes, and the devastation they cause have been incredible. The water is clearly rising from global warming. Tides are now higher, and the damage caused by the rising waters is amazing to witness. So storms are worse, there's more fires, there's more heat, there's more cold, and there's more volatile weather. All you have to do is turn on the news to see that. If you're a math student looking at your computer, just tune into the news and be aware that there really is a crisis. It's a growing crisis, and whether humans can jump in quickly enough to turn it around is a huge question mark. Even if we meet our 2030, 2050, 2060 goals, everyone should be aware there's a growing problem with climate change, and everyone should develop a sense of urgency for trying to do something about it. You know what I mean. Even if that means not bad-mouthing it, just not being neutral and saying, okay yes, this is a problem. We should try to solve it. Even if you don't do anything practical, just changing your mindset will be helpful. People saying things like “drill baby drill” are creating the false impression that everything is okay. It isn't okay. Things are not okay. And we need to try to do something about it.

Dorothy:
I believe in that. Sometimes I really want to persuade someone to contribute more or concentrate more on energy issues and climate change. But during our discussions, one of our professors asked a question: does anyone really focus and care about climate change? Half of our classmates said they don't care and don't even think it's a problem because it's not influencing their daily lives.

Neil:
The same issue bothers me as it relates to American democracy, for example. Nobody cares that we had a crazy man try to overthrow a valid election. They forgive him for all of his crimes and misbehavior. Why are people so apathetic? Why don't people care about our democracy? It's the same frustration you're expressing regarding climate. You feel like slapping people in the face and saying, "Wake up, this is a real problem that we need to address." There's such apathy. People get involved in their own little things, and then they go down ideological rabbit holes, believing false narratives. If they care about it at all, they might be misguided by misinformation. There are a lot of aspects to that problem. I don't know how you can wake somebody up from an apathetic dreamland. I'd rather play my game or solve a math problem. But I wish there was a magic wand to wake people up to this reality.

Dorothy:
I'm always thinking about that kind of question because all the time, I'm arguing that some islands in Oceania are sinking. If you are not the one living on that island, you might think climate change is not an issue. But that doesn't mean it's not an issue. If you just ignore it and don't deal with it, someday your island may sink. I think the Earth will disappear.

Neil:
It's a little bit like the wars in Gaza and Ukraine. We live in a peaceful part of the world. You in China, me in the US, and now we're in Saudi Arabia. There seems to be peace on Earth. But people are suffering right now from gunfire, threats, bombs, missiles, and thousands of people are dying every day.

Dorothy:
Yeah everyday, literally everyday. Hundreds of people are dying in probably a day.

Neil:
Yeah, it's so easy to not insert yourself into their world, because wouldn't it be sad to be in their world? I don't know. It just seems easier to pretend it's not happening to you. And therefore, I don't know. But that's the same with climate. Except in climate, it's more subtle than in a warlike environment where there are people protesting the attacks against Israel and the attacks against the Gaza people. There are some people protesting the Russian invasion. But there are very few protests in the green movement, not too many from everyday citizens like the people you interact with.

Dorothy:
Yeah, I know I'm not criticizing them because they may have their own interests and concerns. But I just want to be the one who can awaken more people to think about this issue because I think this is a human issue. Human beings have to contribute as individuals.

Neil:
There's got to be a better PR campaign to raise awareness on a whole bunch of issues. Right now, there's very little, not very little, but ineffective PR favoring climate action in the US. In other parts of the world, I think it's gaining more ground. But in the US, there's a big group of people that just don't believe there's a crisis.

Dorothy:
Yeah, so to wrap up the interview, I want to ask your thoughts or quotes for young people like me, not just international relations students, but young people in general. What are your thoughts for us to build a better world in the future?

Neil:
It's a good question. I gave a short 8-minute or 7-minute talk at the Beijing Royal School graduation ceremony and highlighted a couple of things. One, the world is really going to look to the next generation, to your generation, to be leaders in helping to return the world to a more collaborative, respectful, and peaceful type of world. Right now, older individuals and institutions are causing conflict, distrust, and division. People need to rally around issues critical for human survival on Earth. I listed a couple, like climate change and the numerous health innovations taking place.

In the past, research on health-related issues was usually published and then shared globally, allowing scientists from China, Russia, the US, and around the world to build upon that research for the betterment of humankind. Now, we're breaking down those research barriers and building walls instead. The future young leadership needs to focus on stronger and deeper collaborations, fostering more respectful relations between countries and individuals.

Secondly, my advice to young people is to avoid being too selfish in your pursuits. My father often said that any definition of a successful life must include serving others. Whether you're a mathematician, a foreign affairs student, interested in renewable energy, or pursuing a career as a pilot or teacher, find a way in your life to serve others. This could be as simple as being kind, thoughtful, and respectful towards others, or it could involve creating a platform for change, such as starting a nonprofit organization to raise awareness on climate issues, for example. So, those are my two pieces of advice for young people: First, work towards creating a less divisive world where we collaborate on common struggles like climate change, health, and peaceful space exploration. Second, find a way to be a beacon of light in the lives of others as you advance through your career.

Dorothy:
Thank you so much for insightful thoughts. You're so kind.

Neil:
So my pleasure, I'm very proud of you. And this has been very joyful for me to get to know you during our little journey here.

***About the Author/Interviewer***
Dorothy C.N. Song is currently serving as a Policy and Economy Analyst Intern at Skytower Group Inc., a Texas-based company. She is pursuing a Master of Arts in International Relations at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS), and holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from The George Washington University (Class of 2023). Dorothy also contributes as a Staff Writer for the SAIS Observer.